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Topic:
A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital" (11 Posts)
Started By:
Date:
07 December, 2017 02:44AM
A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
Jerry - 07 December, 2017 02:44AM
Regarding "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital", part d "Liabilities (excluding mortgages deducted at a.) e.g. loans and overdrafts", if I write in that section "An outstanding loan made by my brother to me, for £40,000, secured by a first charge on the property at the Land Registry for the amount of £40,000", would that be acceptable to the court, ie would the court accept that the value to me of the property (my home) is £40,000 less than it's market value?

A couple of points: If I do write that it will be wholly truthful. There'll be no mortgage on the property. I haven't bought the property yet but am in the processing of doing so. My brother is going to lend me £40,000 (an interest-free genuine loan, not any kind of money moving around exercise) to enable me to buy it. What I am trying to avoid is a court deciding the value of my capital is £40,000 higher than the true value to me, by disregarding the fact that if I ever sell the property I'll have to pay my brother the £40,000 back from the proceeds.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
davidterry - 07 December, 2017 11:03AM
>>I haven't bought the property yet but am in the processing of doing so.

Then wouldn't it be sensible to defer buying a property until such time as the financial issues arising from the marriage have bene formally and finally settled?
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
Jerry - 07 December, 2017 06:28PM
Thank you for your reply David. We've already sold our house, divided the equity, and lived separately for over a year. With her half of the equity my wife bought a house outright, mortgage free, which her and my daughters now live in. After buying the house she also has a sum of cash left over. With my half of the equity I'm in the process of buying the flat mentioned above, to live in as my home. We intend to get divorced after 2 years separation. If we seek a divorce before I have bought the flat, I imagine it's possible I might lose some of my half of the equity in any settlement. After giving it careful consideration including taking legal advice, it seemed to me best to settle for a 50/50 split of the equity, and get my childrens', my wife's and my own housing needs met by the purchase of a home each, before seeking a divorce. Other than the equity from the house that we sold there are no other assets except our fairly small pensions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2017 06:35PM by Jerry.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
HatMan - 07 December, 2017 07:18PM
There is no difference in the potential for losing cash whether it's liquid or in the form of property, if she takes legal advice she will be advised that she can probably get more than 50% of whatever pool of assets are available...if you get away with the current arrangement think yourself VERY lucky.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
Jerry - 07 December, 2017 07:51PM
Thanks Hatman. Re "There is no difference in the potential for losing cash whether it's liquid or in the form of property"... I thought that if the housing needs of all parties have been met it would make some difference, would make it less likely for that arrangement to be reversed or tampered with once the properties have been bought and the housing needs clearly well met? am I wrong on that specific point?
The housing needs of my wife and children have been very well met, they live in a nice, spacious, comfortable house of their choice in exactly the area that they wanted to live in. She owns the house outright and is totally debt free. That also left her with an amount of cash which unless she spends recklessly will nicely supplement her income for many years to come. With my half of the equity I still need a 40k loan to buy a 2 bedroom flat without a mortgage, leaving me just a very small amount of cash left over. I also (willingly) pay child maintenance, which combined with the costs of travel and accomodation to visit my children, takes up approximately a third of my monthly income. If I'm "lucky" to have got this arrangement then I have to ask how much blood can you get out of one stone? Just to add, the 50/50 split was my wife's suggestion, she felt 50/50 was fair in principle, and I am genuinely grateful for that from her. Lastly, I realise it may not be relevant in law but I contributed approximately 90% of the cost of buying the marital home as well as doing more than half of the childcare and housework. Whatever way I examine my conscience I'm absolutely certain that the arrangement we made was, at the very least, fair for my wife, and absolutely in the best interests of my children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2017 07:52PM by Jerry.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
HatMan - 07 December, 2017 08:13PM
You may well be fortunate if your ex is being reasonable - I don't quite understand how she has been able to house herself with zero mortgage and yet you still need additional funding though.....
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
Jerry - 07 December, 2017 08:22PM
She's been reasonable so far, I hope that stays the case once we go through the divorce process. We live in different areas of the country now, with a big difference in house prices between the two areas, which explains the part that didn't quite make sense to you.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
davidterry - 08 December, 2017 11:16AM
>>We intend to get divorced after 2 years separation.

That is extremely foolish. (1) After you have been separated for 2 years there is no guarantee that consent to a divorce will be forthcoming and no way of compelling it. (2) If the financial issues arising from the marriage have not been formally and finally resolved by way of a court order or at the very least a binding and formal deed of separation then you run a serious risk that your wife will come back for me as and when you are finally able to obtain a divorce.

It is far more sensible to get a divorce now and get all the financial issues formally settled within the context of that divorce. Waiting is a recipe for trouble.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
Jerry - 08 December, 2017 05:07PM
Thanks David and I appreciate your point and I've been long aware of it thanks to you and your forum. However, there are reasons why I feel it may not be as clear cut as that in my specific case.

In the event that initiating a divorce prompts my wife to change her mind about the 50/50 split that she suggested and ask for more, which may or may not happen:

Firstly re Hatman's comment "There is no difference in the potential for losing cash whether it's liquid or in the form of property".
I thought that if the housing needs of all parties have been met it would make some difference, would make it LESS likely for that arrangement to be reversed or tampered with (if all attempts at mediation failed and a judge had to decide), once the properties have been bought and the housing needs clearly well met? Am I wrong on that specific point?

Secondly, once I've bought my flat, our daughters will be able to stay with me sometimes, in London. That's something they've not been able to do for 6 months now and without a shadow of doubt they're really looking forward to being able to do it again, and once they've started doing so, I think the chances of my wife seeking to force me to sell the flat, depleting the pot by all manner of costs involved with selling the property and buying a cheaper one, certainly less spacious and/or further away from the parts of London my daughters enjoy, are slim. If she did that she'd know it would cause all kinds of disruption and disappointment, almost certainly lasting many months, for our daughters and I think she cares enough about them to not put them through that, particularly as she's now owns a home outright for her and our children that she's very happy with as well as child maintenance and a nice sum of cash.

As always, I do appreciate yours and anyone else's comments.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
davidterry - 08 December, 2017 05:34PM
The points you ignore are that you cannot be sure that you will get a divorce after two years' separation, that you may be compelled to wait 5 years and a lot can happen in two or five years. Your wife may, for instance, become unable to work for all sorts of reasons which would make her highly dependent upon you financially. You cannot confidently contribute to a pension because you may be doing so for for the benefit of your wife. The same goes for savings or perhaps you may inherit something or win the lottery. A lot can happen in this sort of time scale and Murphy's Law tends to suggest that whatever does happen will be to your financial disadvantage, perhaps greatly so. If you weigh these risks against the supposed advantages you think you are gaining don't think there is any contest but you are adult and free to make your own decisions and take your own risks.
Re: A question about "Statement of information for a consent order in relation to a financial remedy", section 7 "Capital"
Jerry - 08 December, 2017 06:30PM
Thanks David. any savings are negligible, small enough for me not waste any time worrying about the possibility of the worst case scenario of me losing them all in any judgement. That will remain the case, savings will remain negligible in the future. My wife and I both have small pensions, I'm already resigned to the fact that I may lose some of mine in any settlement. I won't win the lottery as I never buy a ticket. Any potential inheritances will also be negligible. My wife states clearly and consistently that she wants to get a divorce after two years separation but even if she happens to change her mind and not give consent and I have to wait 3 more years, it won't be ideal but I can live with that if I have to, I'd prefer that to losing my chance of buying this particular flat. If she becomes unable to work and highly dependent on me financially, I'll have to face the consequences but there isn't a lot of slack to take much more out of my income and for the reasons I already gave above, I think it would take an extreme set of circumstances for her to choose to put our daughters through what they'd suffer if I was forced to sell my (and quite possibly theirs too at some point) home. One final important point, me seeking a divorce now is more likely to meet resistance, and therefore create antagonism (which is obviously the last thing I want), than sticking to our joint original plan of waiting until next year. I've had no home for 6 months and for many other reasons too not mentioned here I'd really like this particular one now and weighing it all up, risk/reward/my children's interests/my interests, I think the upside of buying the flat now is greater than the downside risk of not doing so. Thank you again, I do consider carefully all the advice you give both here and in other threads.
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