Divorce in England - advice, comments, experiences, opinions and discussion about divorce related issues . http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/index.php Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:00:33 +0100 Phorum 5.2.13 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2293,2360#msg-2360 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2293,2360#msg-2360
And, of course, when these facts are looked at more closely it does emerge that there are additional facts which show this was not quite as you had painted it. First, the outcome was so strange that he was advised by his own counsel to appeal. Second, it turns out that this was not his only property and he has 'other properties'. These facts make much more sense of the situation.

Now, I am raising this for two reasons. First, every family lawyer knows clients come to them with anecdotes of how X's divorce 'took years' or 'my husband's sister got the house why can't I?'. The point is ALL cases are different and depend upon their own facts. Almost every case is subtly different from another and a client simply cannot predict the outcome based upon what happened to her neighbour down the road. It just doesn't work like that. You know that and I know that but most people here do not.

Second, all any lawyer can do is predict what the likely outcome would be if the matter went to court but there is uncertainty in any litigation. It is not quite a lottery because most judges do their best and operate according to common assumptions but there is always the risk of a rogue result. The example you quoted seems to have been one such rogue result. It shocked the barrister representing him to the extent that he recommended he should appeal. This type of thing does happen but it is unwise to base advice on the notion that it ALWAYS happens. Rogue decisions should be factored in but you cannot give advice based on them because by their nature they are exceptional and unpredictable.

I hope this helps explain. Debate like this does bring to light subtleties which most people are probably unaware of but you probably are.]]> davidterry UK Divorce Forum Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:41:54 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2359#msg-2359 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2359#msg-2359 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:14:48 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2293,2358#msg-2358 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2293,2358#msg-2358
The gentleman in question was a 57 yo widower who married a 37yo lady with children aged 4 and 7. He adopted her kids when they got married. She fell pregnant after about 6 months and 18 months after the baby was born she got an occupation order and started divorce proceedings.

The court ordered the house be split 85% to the lady because the husband has other properties. Unfortunately they are rented out on protected tenancies as they have been for many years having been inherited from his father. The rent falls far short of the assumed rate of return of 8%. The value placed on them by the court (and subsequently used by CMEC) was based on what they would be worth with vacant possession.

The house has been on the market for over two years now. After paying maintenance for 3 children he can barely afford to live. Housing benefit helps pay his rent, but as a single man that is limited to £65 a week. As he can't prove the allegations made against him were false, he was accused of sexually assaulting one of the children, he doesn't even get to see his child.

Come down to a Fathers 4Justice rally and horror stories like this are common. You might meet the man jailed for 12 months for sending his 8 YO daughter a birthday card after a no contact order had been made because of the mother's mental health, or the gentleman jailed for harrassment for standing in his own front garden and waving to his kids as they drove past to school every morning.

You might meet some of the parents who have had babies snatched by social services, see the www.fassit.co.uk website.

Once you get into the family court anything can happen!

I am surprised you chose to comment on my comment rather than giving the OP some advice.]]> oldnickb UK Divorce Forum Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:56:17 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2357#msg-2357 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2357#msg-2357
Your son is an adult, he is making his own way in life and it is probable to suggest that in a few years time, he'll be financially independent of you.

You say in your last post that you want 'what is rightfully' yours yet, in a previous post, you said:

Why not swallow your pride and DO THE RIGHT THING. Yes, you might not get EVERYTHING you might have wanted from the settlement - but hey - get on with your life and leave the marriage on a good and honest note, hopefully the way it began

If you want want half of the equity, issue the petition and get things moving rather than speculating about what you think you should/might get.]]> Summerlea UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:52:37 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2356#msg-2356 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2356#msg-2356 I simply stated that the inheritance he once was fully entitled to has been halved my marriage to my husband. My husband would prefer that my son and myself were entitled to nothing. I on the other hand feel that, as it was my own house that was sold to purchase the marital home, then my son should, upon my death, at least be entitled to something.

I do not wish to eject my husband from the house. I simply wish to have what is rightfully mine. Which is half the equity.

My son maybe 19 years of age, but he is dependent financially upon me for a roof over his head. He has a part time job which pays all his expenses and he pays board. He is trying his best to get a degree to ensure he has a decent future and I couldn't be prouder of him.
On the other hand - his step-father treats him like dirt.

I have been wondering. Was this forum originally intended as a vehicle by which men could get advice when their wives were being unreasonable during the divorce process? ie, a forum more designed to give divorcing men advice?
Although I am acutely aware that the law is stacked in favour of women (especially with children) in divorce. This doesn't mean that ALL women insist on taking full advantage of that. My husband has several valuable assets to which I want NO claim what so ever. I just want to be able to provide myself and my son with a home that is of a reasonable standard, so that we do not lose everything I strived for before I married. Not an unfair desire I feel.]]> Debbie UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:25:54 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2355#msg-2355 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2355#msg-2355 hankham666 UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 21:38:11 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2350,2354#msg-2354 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2350,2354#msg-2354 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:06:43 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2341,2353#msg-2353 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2341,2353#msg-2353 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:03:19 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2267,2352#msg-2352 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2267,2352#msg-2352 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:58:18 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2351#msg-2351 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2351#msg-2351 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:50:56 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2350,2350#msg-2350 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2350,2350#msg-2350 Any advise would be appreciated.]]> friend UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:23:35 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2313,2349#msg-2349 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2313,2349#msg-2349 aprilia UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:21:57 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2343,2348#msg-2348 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2343,2348#msg-2348
These are matters you need to discuss with your solicitor. The figures are everything in these circumstances. Your solicitor knows the figures and we do not.]]> davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:56:21 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,1623,2347#msg-2347 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,1623,2347#msg-2347 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:49:46 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2313,2346#msg-2346 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2313,2346#msg-2346 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:45:45 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2345#msg-2345 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2345#msg-2345
That may be the best way of dealing with this type of situation.]]> davidterry UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:44:39 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2344#msg-2344 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2344,2344#msg-2344
I have been made redundant and my money to fight this is rapidly running out paying for countering all these allegations]]> hankham666 UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:12:26 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2343,2343#msg-2343 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2343,2343#msg-2343
I am hoping you will be able to give me some advice in regards to the maritial home. I seperated from my wife in Aug last year and we have had the decree nisi through. I have a solicitor however he has not been returning my calls for the past month and I am concerned about the finincial situtiation. Since moving out I have been maintianing the mortage and the bills of the house. The house is soley in my name and so is the mortage and was purchased before we got married. The marriage only lasted 1.5 years but we were together for close to 10 years all together living the house. We have a 5 year old that lives with her and her other child from a previous marriage. The house is a 4 bedroom house and I am finding it very difficult now after a year (building up a big credit card debt in my name) to maintian the payments and my own rented flat. The wife is refusing to sell the house and is claiming that as long as she can afford HALF the mortage from now on (through benefits as she is not working) I will need to keep up the payments of the mortage as long as our boy is in school. Also I am not currently paying childmaitance as what I have been paying towards the house over the past year has been much more than what she would get through CSA. She is getting more and more aggressive and is refusing any communication unless via solicitor (which is adding to my debt), and mediation was a waste of time. It seems she is playing a delaying game as its worked well for her for the past year having everything paid.
Can you please advice what I can do? as it is no longer possible for me to continue the payments of my house that I don't live in and a small flat wich im currently living in. I want to sell the house, pay off our joint debts and start paying child maintance through CSA.

Many many thanks
P.]]> paulo UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:01:18 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2341,2342#msg-2342 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2341,2342#msg-2342
I'm concerned about him moving the goal posts. What is the benefit to him to drag out the finance part? It's absolutely killing me not knowing how I'm going to stand]]> Esther UK Divorce Forum Thu, 09 Sep 2010 07:23:29 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2341,2341#msg-2341 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2341,2341#msg-2341
I've always paid all the mortgage and bills, he contributed little, so he's not used to dealing with finances. We agreed to me paying him off,(£20K), with £60K equity of the house to me, with a clean break and continuing £250 a month child contribution. I plan to stay in the marital home. This was all set out in an financial agreement but he's changed his mind.

I 'm actually ok with him not paying child maintenance as I'm so glad he's gone. However, I think he should pay it until the financial agreement is formalised.

Just want to know if this is a reasonable request? If so, would welcome any ideas on the best way to present the idea to him? He's not being entirely rational at the moment, so cannot antagonise him, but do feel if I agree to no maintenance in the meantime, he's going to continue moving the goalposts and messing me about and we'll never get the finances agreed..

Thank you]]> Esther UK Divorce Forum Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:27:37 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2267,2340#msg-2340 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2267,2340#msg-2340 I'd be so grateful for a nudge in the right direction and then I won't bother you again. Promise.
Thank you
Rosie]]> Rosie UK Divorce Forum Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:00:30 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2339,2339#msg-2339 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2339,2339#msg-2339
I originally (if you read from the beginning of this thread) instructed proceedings against my Husband for divorce on the grounds of Unreasonable Behaviour on the 9th July 2010. My estranged Husband & I had agreed amicably & mutually to a 'Clean Break' settlement of a lump sum payable to myself at the offset. I agreed NOT to lay claim to any of several pensions that he has, to any equity of the house that is mortgage free & in his name only, nor to any of his other assetts (he has savings elsewhere that i'm not interested in)...he in turn agreed not to lay any claim to the flat that I own (with mortgage, although I have around 60% equity in the property), nor to the small amount of savings that I have tied up in an Investment ISA-(we will both have to sign Disclaimers to this effect along with the Consent Order/Clean Break Agreement). This Financial Agreement has already been dafted up by my Solicitor & will be signed (hopefully!) in between Nisi & Absolute, which, incidentally, I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for as soon as the Nisi is pronounced (again you can do this to save time). We have been married (to date) for just 14 months.

I have today been advised that my Decree Nisi will be pronounced on the 28th of this month &, as the Financial Agreement has already been drafted ready for signature from us both between Nisi & Absolute, I should be divorced by 13th October-just 3 months & 1 week from start to finish

I would like to thank David Terry &, essentially, for his brilliant Forum, as we would NOT have been divorced as quickly as this, had we not swallowed our pride & heeded his advice re key aspects of our case. These are as follows for future reference for others:

A) David was quite right when he says that it matters not a jot what is listed AS the 'Unreasonable Behaviour' in the Petition-my Husband wasn't particuarly enamoured about some of the things I said about him, but agreed it was the best way forward to speed up the process if he agreed to the reasons & did not try to defend the Petition, as the only people who see this information are myself, him, my Solicitor & the Court, it is NOT at any time made public knowledge & if you want a quick divorce, just accept whatever it says (irrespective of whether it's true or you 'don't like it'!), sign it & get on with it-bitching about the 'reasons' will only hold up the process & is, at the end of the day, unproductive & totally futile-i.e the 'Fool's errand'' that David so often talks about! If you want the divorce & the marriage is over, what's the point of dragging it out...none whatsoever!!

cool smiley He also quite correctly states that it is the Petitioner (in this case myself) who dictates the pace of a Divorce..I have been firm & direct right from the start with my Solicitor, about what we had both agreed, & that we wanted proceedings to move at a rapid pace which, to her credit, she has heeded & has not 'dragged her heels' at any point as she could see that I was a very determined, strong Woman, intent on pushing this through as soon as was humanly possible to get out of this joke of a marriage which should never have taken place!!

It can be done is all I am trying to say here, (granted it was a lot easier for us as there are no dependent children involved), but if you are certain your marriage is over & want out asap, get on with it & get it over & done with-don't squabble pettily about 'who says what about whom' or try for unrealistic financial settlements as you have to balance that out too...are you really going to be any better off, holding out for a few extra quid when the Legal Bill is escalating astronomically week by week, month by month, possibly even negating any little extra you might (possibly?) be awarded at the end of the day?

Just food for thought &, hopefully to knock some common sense into those of you intent on fighting a losing battle!

Thank you David, this Forum has been a godsend during an emotional & very difficult time.

Good luck to the rest of you out there still suffering & slugging it out!!]]> BjornAgain UK Divorce Forum Wed, 08 Sep 2010 18:31:54 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2338#msg-2338 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2338#msg-2338
He then has a potential inheritance from his wealthy parents to come in about 20 years time - at least 1/4 of a million £££. Whilst my parents have already given me equity release from their home to assist in paying the children's final years school fees. So when the time comes for my mortgage to end, I'll then be forced to sell my home again & find somewhere even smaller.

I feel that all these things should be taken into account when deciding upon a 'fair' settlement.]]> MrsTiggywinkle UK Divorce Forum Wed, 08 Sep 2010 17:35:48 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,1902,2337#msg-2337 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,1902,2337#msg-2337 BjornAgain UK Divorce Forum Wed, 08 Sep 2010 17:21:09 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,1623,2336#msg-2336 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,1623,2336#msg-2336 I have now contacted her solicitors again asking them to have the courtesy to, at lease acknowledge my letters and let me know if my ex agree to the reciprocity of info. Nothing as yet. They were frightening me to take me to court if I didn't supply my financial info ASAP and now, over 2 months down the line, they don't even respond.
I just want things sorted and have a clean break order so I can move on and don't have to look behind my shoulders for the rest of my life. She just found out that my Nan had passed away and she has now told me she is entitle to some inheritance. Is it correct? Even if the death occurred 3 years after our separation?]]> Handy UK Divorce Forum Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:54:43 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2335#msg-2335 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2335#msg-2335 davidterry UK Divorce Forum Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:21:50 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2334#msg-2334 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2191,2334#msg-2334
Thankyou for understanding my feelings as I feel very alone at the moment and that few people do understand how it feels to be in this situation.

As for the 'mutual dislike and lack of respect' that my son feels towards his step-father, I find it hardly surprising that he feels this way. Especially given the fact that he was only 9 years old when my (now) husband came into his life and has treated him with disdain for most of that time. My husband never bothered to forge a relationship with my son - in fact I realise now that he saw him as just an inconvenience. The funny thing being that I have always had a great relationship with my husbands children to his previous marriage - they love me dearly and I love them. I have been there for them throughout their childhood - which only hurts all the more that the same wasn't extended to my own son whom I love very much.

And so Mr Terry. If the WHOLE story was put in front of a judge - he might well see it in a less 'judgemental' way than yourself.]]> Debbie UK Divorce Forum Tue, 07 Sep 2010 22:53:15 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2333#msg-2333 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2333#msg-2333
The courts strive for a fair settlement, that is the main priority. It is usually the case that both parties life styles will ultimately change and perhaps what was enjoyed before as in holidays, cars etc will not be available post divorce. These things are, after all, a luxury when you think about it and perhaps not essential. I do not see why one party should ensure these luxury's continue and be responsible for paying for them.

Your husband will be expected to financially support his children as this is his financial responsibility. You are on a good salary with a healthy pension. I imagine there are a lot of women out there who would love to be in a similar position. As for his new partner's salary, this will not be taken into account apart from the fact that his housing needs are being met. Whether she earns more than him or not, there's nothing you can do about that.]]> Summerlea UK Divorce Forum Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:56:36 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2332#msg-2332 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2298,2332#msg-2332
The youngest boy would be at university until 2016 at the earliest, so potentially needing a roof over his head for some of the time for several more years.(he has just started 6th form, so would go to uni in 2012 at the earliest).

In order to get a reasonable house (I am in a 4 bed detatched at the moment - am looking for a 3 bed semi which is what I 'brought with me' into the marriage) I can't manage to get this without all of the equity (as I also need the max mortgage I could get). I appreciate that maybe the ex would be expecting something, but he has already had nearly £20K of endowmnent policies. Is there any way I could use all the equity to buy what I need now, then pay him something in a few years when financially things might be easier?

Supposing at that stage he is living in a 'mansion' with his partner on their joint £5K + salary, while I am scraping the cash to pay him off on my salary which is a fraction of that. Sorry, but I don't see how this is 'fair'. I thought that divorce law included the wife keeping a reasonably similar level of lifestyle to the one she enjoyed during the marriage ie reasonable house/car/holidays etc. Or am I to be reduced to living in a slum & scraping by ? Sorry if I sound bitter - I am !.]]> MrsTiggywinkle UK Divorce Forum Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:11:39 +0100 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2304,2331#msg-2331 http://www.terry.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,2304,2331#msg-2331 levisomnious UK Divorce Forum Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:36:40 +0100